“Russia dodges and manipulates. This will result in the extension of the sanctions”
Normandy format will be held this year?
Yes. A couple of days to finalize breeding. My prediction — until December 20, the meeting will happen.
— Do you think that Russia wants this meeting?
— In every way they meander from it. President Zelensky constantly communicates with Merkel and Macron, and recalls that all obligations we perform. Accordingly, the Russian will have a very bad position if they refuse it is not clear why. They tried to include the gas (in the process of negotiations on the Donbass — ed.) and any way to avoid this process. But I think they will break the resistance.
— And they have the gas isn’t turned on?
Is the new condition that was not mentioned. This is a typical manipulation, when you have a road map on where you go, and then — BAM! and another step where something got out.
— From the confidence that one such manipulation does not come out?
— There is no certainty. We are dealing with opponents whom, all good and no surprises are to be avoided. Nevertheless, the President clearly holds the frame and as soon as there are any attempts of manipulation from their side — immediately inform partners. If the Russians come off is a serious basis for extending or strengthening sanctions, which would still be a victory.
— In an interview with Radio Liberty, You said that while Putin is alive, nothing in the Donbass will not happen to them it makes no sense to talk. Why do we now Norman meeting with a “live” Putin?
— To get away from the Minsk agreements because they were originally onerous conditions, which forced us to sign during Ilovaysk and debaltseve. In order to get out of them, you need to go to another format.
— What is the benefit of Russia out of the Minsk agreements?
She benefits no. It all suits in this format. But Russia did not believe that these agreements can be executed. Due to the fact that the opportunity is now there, she did not remain anything, except how to add there new conditions or move to another format on other conditions. And it is profitable for us.
— What if Norman meeting this year will not happen? What’s next?
— Not going to happen — everyone will know who. Rather, everyone can see for someone. For us it is still the strengthening of the position. It’s better than it is now. When most of the civilized world thinks we sabotage the agreement, it does not add reliability to us in the negotiations. If everyone can see that it makes Russia, it gives us reason to be reformatted differently. If not Normandy format, then let’s expand and bring Britain and the United States.
If not the Minsk agreement, then what? Looks like the next page, if this turn?
Another order of negotiations with the involvement of more partners, with a stronger position of Ukraine. We are discussing with various stakeholders in Ukraine. We have people who are fundamentally opposed to any kind of negotiations. They say that it is necessary to accumulate the resources (military, diplomatic, economic) and then to come out with another negotiating position. The accumulation of resources takes three to four years. We have no mandate to three to four years out, since the electorate is asked to move in the direction of the world. How it will be achieved is a big question mark. But if you don’t move, we just stick in one place.
— The draft law on the Donbass. Is there any concept of this document?
— There is no concept. This bill is not in the office of the President nor the Parliament nor in the Cabinet. There are attempts to speculate on this topic. Any bill of this kind will only appear once there will be new concepts and frameworks, i.e. after the Norman format. If he actually canceled, then canceled the need to develop the law. I just don’t understand then why you need it. If it is temporary, it makes sense to simply extend the current one.
— What do You think about the study Mirror weeks about the mood in the Donbas?
— To be honest, upset me all these statistics. First thought it would be good if these statistics confirm some sources. But I tend to believe her more than not to believe. What to do with it? In order to win minds, we need to influence them. To do channels and websites. A change of mentality — it’s not fast.
— Maybe it still says that it is necessary to put the wall, and the entire project Zelensky on reintegration crumbles?
— If you put a wall and de facto acknowledge the loss of territory — you will not forgive never.
— So they are not Zelensky lost.
— Always remember who it was. This story, which is not included none of the politicians in this world.
“Many people see the faction in the Parliament as a vertical organization where you can hire or fire. But it is more correct to compare with the business club”
— Recently held Congress of the party. Why Kornienko became the head? Have there been other candidates to Congress?
After Razumkov became speaker, we have a question about changing the head. But Kornienko was involved in the party and was the second most active if not the first. Why not even make sense to consider alternative candidates.
But some MPs said that they in Congress were not invited and the candidate Kornienko they were not coordinated.
— MPs who yesterday members of the party have been claiming rights and asking why they were not consulted.
— What took the party by Anton Polyakov?
— He is our MP, who wrote a statement. By default, we can’t deny him.
— Why in the party the people who are actually acting like the opposition and collect signatures for the resignation of your attorney General?
— As they say, the collective farm — is voluntary. The party should be people of all kinds. This ensures a pluralism of opinions and balanced position. But if a person can take non-constructive position, it likewise may be eliminated.
— In Your opinion, the situation with the collection of signatures for the resignation of the Prosecutor General of Ryaboshapka is a constructive position?
Many people perceive the fraction as a vertically managed organization, where you can hire or fire. Here more correct to compare with the community at the business club, which together shall establish the rules of interaction with each other. In fraction approximately, because each member is a unique individual with his own agenda. Especially mazhoritarshchik. They often say that they personally voted and personally trust them people, so they have the right to a dissenting opinion.
I personally don’t care for the division of constituencies and spisochnik. We have one overall program. Apparently, it is impossible to eradicate, because in the minds of people, this rhetoric is continually used.
— A case Dubnevich, when part of the faction did not vote for the arrest?
— We had a lot of opposition to this vote. But no need to look for conspiracy theories and interest groups. Many of our lawyers came and said it was poorly designed story and don’t need to vote for it. Some lawyers we persuaded, because there is a decision of the faction, and you have to vote. But some lawyers still did not want. Even some people said it is window dressing. Said, what’s the point of arrest and released the next day on bail. It’s annoying the electorate.
— No faction’s Voice the arrest would not have happened and there would be a failure. The failure of a vote to arrest in Parliament will not irritate voters?
— The failure of a vote in Parliament following a limited number of voters, i.e. those who are actively interested in the political life. As usual the electorate says, “spring has Come — want landing”. And when he sees that the people go out the next day on bail, he sees it as fixed.
So part of our members said that they do not want to get involved. Or said that let us fulfill our campaign promise and clear the liens for corruption. This subject is actively discussed within the faction. But international lawyers say that such a solution, we provoke a large number of cases in the European court of human rights, and Ukraine will pay quite large cash reward to these “prisoners.”
“Better ten groups of influence within the public Servants and the hundreds of conflicts than to give someone a position or company for effective voting”
— You have at a fraction of 254 people together with the Presidium. You are inherently prone to disagreement and conflict. It is foolish to deny that there are “servants” that are affected by Kolomoisky or other factors. Why You are simply not eliminate, so they don’t poison your faction from the inside?
— The issue of exclusion of people from the faction constantly in the air. We have a program of economic growth, where they have to make a hundred laws. And in the end we are faced with the simple things. If we don’t have even five votes to make the law their own, we’ll have to enter in the dogovornjakah with other political forces. Attempts to discuss the terms of these dogovornyakov leads me to believe that it is better we will have ten groups of influence inside, hundreds of conflicts, but it is our people, and we agree with them much faster. And let’s not give them any positions and businesses.
— Except during the voting for Dubnevich Voice demanded some kind of enterprise?
No, a Voice we have plus or minus a good collaboration on the level of ideology. If there is some kind of progressive story, they will gladly support you, ask nothing in return. Therefore it is better to do it inside (to negotiate within the Servants of the people — ed.), including with Voice. Otherwise, these groups of influence within the SN will seem children’s babble. Wishlist that give voice to other people in the Parliament, it is scary to hear.
— Back in September You talked about the groups that are trying to “take the servants on rations.” Later You said that these groups offer the people’s Deputy of Contracting for $30 thousand. Makes sense to name who these groups to discourage them to continue?
— You should not think that if they send the light, they dissolve. Experienced people, it makes no sense. We are trying to steer. If two weeks ago during some scandal you told me that should someone withdraw from the faction, but today I will say that our group is United as never before.
— Dubinsky and Poles at the Congress clearly demonstrated this.
For me the metric one as they vote for our laws. If you view the examples, then for progressive legislation, they give voice.
— For the repeal of the sites Yatsenko they vote?
— On the Committee, Yes.
— And in the hall? In the hall this question is no.
This week we are unable to put this law because we have the legalization of amber, the de-monopolization of Ukrspirt, legalization of gambling, the land market and budget. If you take the pad Yatsenko and one million a day, that legalization of amber is a billion. You just take and compare, where the economic effect is higher.
But the issue platforms will not go away?
— No, 100%. In December we will approve it.
— Earlier You said that You had two red lines before entering the Servant of the people: the attitude towards Russia and the connection with Kolomoisky. Now we see some MPs in SN that directly or indirectly controlled by Kolomoisky.
So you can say that we have a group Pinchuk.
— As it is?
No, but you can say, because there are people with a background working in structures Pinchuk. I personally doesn’t see. From orbit, Igor V. the people there. How they consistently and destructive play now? Very minimal. That is, they are loud…
— Plus group For the future. Already 20-30 people there.
— Well, OK, the flag in their hands.
— Have You discussed with the President that there are people who often go against the party line?
— Of course. The President understands everything and asks me constantly what can be the solution. I say, if you put on the card, the conversation with five deputies outside or with our five — I always choose the way to talk inside.
Yeah, maybe it’s reduces the rating of our party, because people want a strong hand. But people not so deeply involved in the internal processes. Today they like a strong hand, and tomorrow they will say that we are impotent and cannot make common law. Better inside to fuck on all possible issues, but in the end to go to the gym and to vote than now to cut off everyone who is against, and leave boutique faction in 180 people, and then run and think where to get another 46 votes.
“The Dubinsky lot of energy. Now that he has joined the party — it will be distributed. There will be fewer problems within the faction”
— Dubinsky directly stated at the Congress that joined the party to control the regional distribution of cells. Do not fear that Igor will lead the crowd of his own people in local councils and there will be a insert you stick in the wheel?
— Dubinsky is one member of the party. I went with him four other members. The party just under a thousand members. Let the reformers. He must understand that such voices.
— Are not you afraid that he was poisoned by faction, and now will poison the party?
— Normally, he has a lot of energy. It will be distributed and there will be less problems within the faction.
— Since we are talking about the dissidents. How is the monitoring system for the members of “Big brother”?
— When I read your own analysis (Read the article LIGA.net: “Big brother” Servants of the people: three renegade and seven on the way) thought you nicked my own program. Very cool material and is virtually identical to our story.
— In fact, he identified only one Dubinsky, who strongly stands out on the voting.
— Because it is. A lot of illusions about what groups there are in the fraction. People caught an isolated case and say that it is sabotage. You can see that the statistical analysis does not reveal trends in the work of one group. If you take the land market, it is very surprising to me prior history for the position of deputies. The deputies, whom I saw pure progressive libertarians, say that in any case do not vote. And the deputies, which I think is almost the Communists, saying that Yes, it is necessary to open the land market.
— Here is social liberalism in action.
Yes. So “big brother” while lag and shows random distribution.
“The incident with the Yaremenko — the consequences of the turbo. People actually live in the Parliament, the personal life is missing.”
— How the President reacted to the story with Yaremenko?
— He got really pissed.
— What is the solution to this situation, he personally supported?
In the beginning he was pretty radical until leaving the office. But it is a question of ethical nature. Besides Yaremenko objectively strong diplomat. More people are not outraged correspondence, and his subsequent reaction. I jokingly said that the incident with the Yaremenko — the consequences of the turbo. Because people actually live in the Parliament, and his personal life, they do not.
— Who will replace Yaremenko, as head of the Committee?
In shorts-sheet has three or four people, which we can consider. Lisa Yasko is, Sviatoslav yurash, Marina Bardina, Nikita Poturaev, Mariya Mezentseva. We will make internal primaries so that people have presented their programmes, and the fraction will be determined.
— Do you personally support someone?
— The position I have, I want to listen to. In my opinion, many of them are very young. When you talk to 75-year-old Senator, he can physiologically perceive the 23-year-old boy as a subject of the negotiations.
— That is, yurash, Yasko and Bardeen to such office is not ready?
— Yasko works perfectly in PACE. Another question. Bohdan Yaremenko, being a diplomat, refused to work simultaneously and in Committee, and PACE. Two such works cannot be combined. If we consider Jasko on the Committee, then you need to consider someone new to the PACE.
“The land market — will be. We promised we would. But votes hard”
— Why Congress was not Zelensky? At the Congress before the parliamentary elections, he as the President was. Zelensky afraid for your ranking in connection with the recent scandals in the party?
— No, absolutely not. Before Congress he called me and asked if he needed. I say that like there. It is more technical Congress was, it was clear from the start. The presence Zelensky had no meaning. Rating background is not here.
— Change ideology. Don’t you think that social liberalism is an attempt to sew with white thread faction and the electorate.
— I also just joined the party member, so not ready to discuss the ideological component. Overall, I believe that social liberalism is the place to be, though it is a very difficult task. Because libertarianism if you could not make money, became homeless and died, then to hell with you. In socialism, every homeless person should be directed, employed and reintegrated society. Our society is super social. Even the youth thinks that the government should be the active participant and regulator of the processes. If we say that we are not for it, we will not represent the mass market. We have a political product is mass-market. If people have in mind there is a feeling, then you need to follow it. A political party is a marketing product.
Then there are statements before the election about libertarianism — it is a marketing ploy?
— No, why? We have libertarians. Ten years ago, it was hard to imagine that on the agenda will be the question of the land market or medical cannabis.
— And the land market will be?
— I’m sure there will be. We promised the electorate we need to move.
— What is voice?
With the votes is really hard. Explain and show that the land market should be.
“Imperative mandate for majoritarian might look like this: a — collected suspended 10 thousand votes on the district withdrew. Now discussing it”
The head of state. Why didn’t You expel button pushers, because they have signed a Memorandum before the election?
Because it was an accident. This movie stupidity.
— Are you serious?
— I’m serious. I talked to them a couple of hours.
— They were in the heat of passion?
The man left the room, came back, and said to him: “I have voted for you”. He asks: “why?”. We had 270 votes. It was not the priority of this bill, a request for help. People just wanted to try what it is. And we have a question: remove the two voices that may be important for the state needs reform, or we will punish people who are foolish enough to have pressed his button.
— If the person the second time stupidity hit?
— Then just delete it. The second time can’t be stupidity.
— Now, the member can click on stupidity and just pay the fine. Because he knows that it will not be deprived of the mandate.
— There is quite a big fine. The majority of deputies — very modest from the point of view of their capital. For them to pay 50-60 thousand penalty — large sum of money.
— There are groups that can help to pay.
— I agree. But then there were no more incidents.
— Imperative mandate needed?
— Necessary, but the chances that we make it in the form in which it is almost equal to zero.
— That is, from this idea was abandoned?
— No. This idea transformed into another. For example, there is a form of opinion of MP from the district. If we conditionally 10 thousand, we voted for the member, and then I saw that he was being a dick, you can collect a percentage of signatures to withdraw. We are now discussing, which percentage will be valid.
— And of party list candidates?
— A spisochnik easier. If he voluntarily comes under pressure faction.
— And if it doesn’t work?
— If you do not go, then you won’t do it.
— About the opinion of the constituencies. Do you believe that at least one member will vote for it?
— I do believe. Because before the election they promised.
It sounds naive.
— I may be naive. But I don’t believe the imperative mandate in the classic sense. In opinion I believe in a compromise solution. If there is written, that opinion will need to collect a lot of signatures, then people will realize that this case will not buy and will not falsify.
“The collection of signatures for the resignation of Rajapaske can be an individual most dislike Dubinsky. Don’t quite believe that this is Kolomoisky”
— Do You think that the Cabinet has somebody hatched to dismiss?
— Honestly, no. It is necessary to give the Cabinet to work 100 days. They should form their vision of the strategic level. They have not yet acquired a KPI, so that the community can understand we’re moving in the right direction or not. Until we see the plan of the government and will not give them the opportunity to go on it, it makes no sense to change horses in midstream.
— Then position outside of the Cabinet. For example, as You Ryaboshapka? Signed for the resignation?
— No, of course. How to evaluate attorney General to month. This is pure political history. Someone wants to pump up his points for PR.
— What Kolomoisky did not hit Ryaboshapka?
— I don’t quite believe that Kolomoisky. 1+1 doesn’t show anything bad about Ryaboshapka here. It may be that this is an individual most dislike Dubinsky. Usually, when Igor someone doesn’t like the campaign much shirokolistvennye.
And nefodov at the head of the customs?
— I respect max, but custom is a difficult task for him because it was closer to the security forces. They used to understand the language of force, and he wants to beat them through the electronization, automation, and rules. And then it’s a 50-50 chance that it will succeed. The security forces love to come and strong arm.
— A strong hand is about Khoroshkovsky?
I don’t know about the role of Khoroshkovsky in it.
— And you, yourself Khoroshkovsky met?
— No, I’ve never seen him before. As can be seen, but I didn’t know that’s inter.
“If not the Bogdan — many questions do not moving”
And often communicate with Bogdan?
— Yes, quite often. A couple of times a week for sure.
— Was the part of his attempts to say how to vote?
— It is usually one item: why is everything so slow? He wants everything to be much faster. I to Bogdan are very positive. A lot of people just saw him as a lawyer Kolomoisky, and it knocked them sight. I believe that if it wasn’t Bogdan, many processes do not move. He is super strong driver of positive changes that take place within the government.
— Why did conflicts arise?
Because he’s a guy strong in spirit. He doesn’t like any compromise and to negotiate with anyone. So fast and making myself enemies.
— So come the fakes on Bakanova who knocked out tooth Bogdan?
— No. Incidentally, I was at that meeting. There not even close was not that teeth — even raised voices.
But the dispute was?
— In a dispute born truth.
— There is a version that is Buhari bring the story of the tooth.
I don’t know. It is evident, of course, that it was not accidental operation, because she so quickly went viral. But I did not understand its purpose. It’s easy to debunk — shoot video or take photos.
— Why Zelensky fired bahareva? Looks like a continuation of the story.
Have bahareva with Baranovym was all the time in skirmishes. These skirmishes did not bring anybody any good. Because Bakanov home, and to avoid situation like Demchina-Gritsak, when we actually had two security Services within a single SBU — it was a very wrong story — the President took the decision to leave one Bakanova.
— You as the man who never was in politics, not tired of the backroom politics?
The first month I was in total depression and go nuts from taking place. Now somehow involved and no longer respond emotionally to these things. I understand that every day can be a new zrada. If you’re going to treat it with full involvement, you will burn up.
Apple, Google and Paypal. Who are lured to Ukraine
— You are close to IT businesses. The arrival of Apple in Ukraine. Does someone talks? What are the options? RnD, representation or anything?
— I’m talking about Apple not heard anything. We agreed with Rakuten, the owners of Viber. We are now talking to Binance, the largest crypto currency exchange. Talking with Amazon now about coming to Ukraine. Talking about the data center. We talk to Google about transferring the headquarters from Europe to here.
— Facebook no. They have the attitude that RnD does not need them, he had them all concentrated there. A sales office in Russia. We actively talk with PayPal and try to tighten them, although it is a task of daunting, because they don’t see in the us market. We have now invented a new strategy of negotiations with them. I hope it will work. Do not want to spoil. They also have a representative office in Russia and they all the time trying to crush the emergence of PayPal in Ukraine.
From those You named, who is the most real?
— All real. Everywhere the active phase of the negotiations.
— Approach some of them — the question is two months, six months, year?
— They have a big bureaucracy. Unfortunately, such investors rely on credit ratings and compliance. Much faster transactions happen with rich people from countries with authoritarian regimes. Therefore, from the point of view of investment in the first two years it will be the Arab countries, Azerbaijan, Belarus.
— What You have at the very left of the business?
— I do not have any business. There is a venture capital Fund. After selling the business I all funds were reinvested in a different kind of company, the Declaration, as I have the money, a lot of bitcoins and venture capital Fund. Active business I have right now.
— How would You rate your condition now?
All together probably $20-25 million, if I had to sell everything and everywhere to go.
— So now You live on a parliamentary salary?
Now I live solely through their savings. Parliamentary salary I receive and spend on charity. Generally, I think that MPs salaries should be raised. It must be 100 thousand on hand. Then will remove a lot of temptations. It is clear that you’ll never kill the corrupt interest groups, but, at least, is a hygienic measure.
— We have MPs like to increase his salary in the budget night. This year we can expect similar?
— No, the challenge now is to cut the state apparatus by 10%. Therefore, this story does not take place.
In an interview earlier in the year, You estimated his fortune at $30 million and said “the next 10 years want to devote to grow to $300 million.” You said before entering into politics.
Now a break in politics for networking. I have many friends went to Stanford, where the tuition you spend $550-700 thousand for the whole circle. I’m asking why they need it. They say that not for knowledge and the crust and for networking. I thought in California I don’t want, I was already there. And here, I can get the networking, which at Stanford you couldn’t dream of. And then when you’re done with politics, you can do big business. So I thought that the policy in five years tenure (if they are) cost me $750 thousand of my expenses. After policy I’ll be back in business. However, I haven’t decided which one.
— And in politics that want to leave after five years?
— At some point I realized that I may not be an individual game. I am a coach of a football team. I took this role. In the first month I was a drug addict, because I wanted individual achievements. But then I realized that they can not be in such a role. A team will be considered a serious economic growth. I would like to see the average salary level although the life of $500, comprehensive medical insurance to law enforcement was at times less, and they began to work significantly more efficiently. And from a business point of view — that we integrated into the world economic community. If we are not integrated, the chance to live with dignity, our country will not.
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